More Than Serving Tea



Dear Pastor Rick Warren, I Think You Don’t Get It

Rick Warren's FB post

I’m not sure how Saddleback Staff start each day like the Red Army Guard. No one has explained that to me so I really do not get it.

***UPDATE: So, as of sometime this afternoon, the original FB post and tweet of this image has been removed, presumably by Rick Warren. That is wonderful news. He has also issued an apology on Dr. Sam Tsang’s blog (linked later in this post) but not on his Facebook page or Twitter because it has all been removed. However, I am leaving up my original post because deleting something doesn’t actually address the issue, and the subsequent commenter by supporters were never addressed. Those supporters may think the post was removed because he got tired of the angry Asians who don’t get it. Right now, it feels like I’ve been silenced. Pastor Warren actually did read many of the comments voicing concern about the post and responded with a rather ungracious response. My kids constantly hear me talk about the consequences of posting something up on social media and the permanence of that.

Also, I have corrected “Army” to “Guard” because in my rush and ignorance I treated them as the same. Both Communists? Yes. The same army? No.  

I guess I don't get Hebrew ironic humor.

I guess I don’t get Hebrew ironic humor.

You know it’s going to be an interesting day when you wake up to FB tags and messages about “something you would blog about.”

My dear readers, you know me too well.

This photo is currently on Rick Warren’s FB page and his Twitter feed. Apparently the image captures “the typical attitude of Saddleback Staff as they start work each day.” Hmmm. I didn’t realize Saddleback was akin to the Red Army Guard.  Warren’s defense (and that of his supporters) is one that  I AM SO SICK AND TIRED OF HEARING! It goes something like this:

  • Don’t you know this is a joke? This is funny. Get over yourself. Get a sense of humor. Christians can be funny.
  • I didn’t mean to offend you. BUT…Get over yourself. Get a sense of humor. Christians can be funny.
  • Why are you attacking “fill in the blank with well-intentioned White person’s name here”? Don’t you know how many people said person’s ministry and life’s work has touched and brought to faith? Get over yourself. Get a sense of humor. Christians can be funny.
  • If you are a Christian, show “fill in the blank with well-intentioned White person’s name here” some grace. Get over yourself. Get a sense of humor. Christians can be funny.
  • Don’t be so politically-correct. Be a Christian first. Don’t make this about race. Get over yourself. Get a sense of humor. Christians can be funny.

I don’t know where to start with this so I will first take a deep, cleansing breath and send you to Dr. Sam Tsang’s blog to get a thoughtful, educational post that for those who are not familiar with the Red Army Guard. This image used by Warren? Propaganda. Because genocide always looks better when it’s smiling & perfectly-coiffed.

But what would’ve happened had he used this image? Would have his supporters still supported him? Because use of this image would be just as offensive to me as the other one. It’s not funny. It’s not about me getting over myself. It’s not about Christians being funny. One thing it is about is White evangelicalism (re)writing the narrative of our faith and our story. The story continues to tell people like me to get over it, to lighten up, to get a sense of humor, to put my faith above my ethnicity and gender. The story continues to tell me that the amount of grace someone deserves is equal to the number of people they have “helped”. The story continues to tell me that people like me have no place in the culture making of Christianity because directly and indirectly we are not welcome as my dear friend Grace Biskie wrote about her experience at a recent conference.

The Red Army. Hitler Youth. Would one be more acceptable than the other?

The Red Army Guard. Hitler Youth. Would one be more acceptable than the other?

Dear Pastor Rick Warren,

I have not helped thousands come to know Jesus. I don’t know that for a fact, but I do know that I don’t have the kind of platform you do, the kind of following you do, the number of eyes watching and listening to you. But that shouldn’t stop us from listening to one another and learning from one another.

The image of the Red Army Guard soldier is offensive. It isn’t funny. And it does have racial implications. I know you are a thoughtful leader, so why not choose an equally funny/not funny image of Hitler Youth who look just as cheerful, focused and determined (and perhaps, dare I say, more like your staff?) Because it was easy to use the Red Army Guard image? Because you didn’t think it was a big deal to connect your Christian staff with the Chinese Red Army? Because you have someone of Chinese descent on your staff and he/she didn’t think it was a big deal? 

Please reconsider your comments that essentially told many of your brothers and sisters in Christ to get over it, to get a sense of humor, to lighten up, etc. Please take a moment to hear us out because you don’t get to tell me to laugh about the Communist Red Army Guard because it isn’t funny. There is no irony. Do not compare me and others to the self-righteous who did not get Jesus’ humor as you did in your FB defense.

Please help me understand how this furthers the kingdom of God because right now it feels like the most important thing is to “get you”.

Sincerely,

Kathy Khang


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Comments

  1. * Tim Fromla says:

    Matthew 12:34: how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. His heart spoketh…and I’m an atheist

    Like

    | Reply Posted 1 year, 1 month ago
  2. * Fred Mok says:

    Kathy, this post is awesome. I totally respect your courage in calling out Rick Warren. I do hate how PC-sensitive our society is but it’s the reality of how diverse this country is. Ignorance is pervasive but it’s not an excuse. And that’s what infuriated Sam Tsang, that Warren blew him (and others) off after being called out on his ignorance. His apology was a big step though and it says something about his humility. I appreciate that guy and I love how the body of Christ can rebuke its members in love.

    Like

    | Reply Posted 1 year, 1 month ago
    • * Kathy Khang says:

      Thank you, Fred. Yes, ignorance can’t be an excuse, especially when it comes to leaders!

      Like

      | Reply Posted 1 year, 1 month ago
  3. * Khanh Nguyen says:

    Quoting Ken Sande’s book – The Peacemaker – “The best way to ruin a confession is to use words that shift the blame to others or that appear to minimize or excuse your guilt. The most common way to do this is to say, ‘I’m sorry IF I’ve done something to upset you.’ The word IF ruins this confession, because it implies that you don’t know whether or not you did wrong, [you just want people] to get off [your back by giving a token apology]…and that [you] don’t know what [you] should do differently in the future [nor are you expecting to change] …” Clearly that is no confession at all. It is a superficial statement designed to get someone to stop bothering you or to transfer fault for breaking a relationship. Small wonder that genuine forgiveness rarely follows such words. (p. 127). 

    I’ve also learned that after you genuinely apologize, you need to be willing to hear how and how much you hurt the other person. Don’t just say “sorry” and think that’s the end of the story (My 4 year old tries to do that).

    Warren I’m sure is a wonderful Christian and has impacted many with this ministry. But no Christian is above correction – it only helps us grow more like Christ. This is not to condemn him but to hope he and his followers grow from it.

    Thanks for being a voice Kathy!

    Like

    | Reply Posted 1 year, 1 month ago
    • * khanh says:

      Oops meant to post that on your – “There’s No If” blog.

      Like

      | Reply Posted 1 year, 1 month ago
    • * Kathy Khang says:

      Thanks for that great quote, Khanh! My husband and I try to remember that an apology with an “if”, “and” or “but” clause doesn’t really make things better but actually make them worse. And it’s great that your 4-year-old is trying to learn that! Maybe your 4-year-old wants to write a post on forgiveness for me? I would totally do that! Grace and peace!

      Like

      | Reply Posted 1 year, 1 month ago
  4. * Benji says:

    Well, I actually disagree with all this outrage. To provide some perspective, the picture itself is taken from the Red Detachment of Women, a popular ballet from 1964 which was later performed for Nixon on his visit to China. It’s about a peasant girl who joins an all-female militia to overthrow the despotic landlord of her village during the 1920s.
    Yes, 1920s. Yes, 1964.
    For those unversed on the timeline of modern Chinese history, both of these years predate the Red Guard and predate the Cultural Revolution. The picture is not of a potential mother-rapist Red Guard soldier, as Dr. Tsang suggests. Nor is it a depiction of the Great Leap Forward, which Dr. Tsang also raises. As Mingliang previously commented, it is important not to conflate the Red Guard with the Red Army. The Red Army was an army. The Red Guard were the purveyors of the Cultural Revolution. (Do communist Asians all look the same to you?)
    But this is not that. This is from a rather tame piece—especially for propaganda—that was meant to instill a sense of “good triumphs over evil”-style justice. It is essentially the romanticised, almost fairy tale version of communist revolution. This is the Chinese Boston Tea Party. The Chinese Paul Revere. And while I’m sure that this imagery could still be offensive to some, with all this in mind, let’s not summon the need to be offended out of ignorance.

    Like

    | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
    • * Kathy Khang says:

      Benji, thank you for the specifics of the image. I have read a few threads on Sam Tsang’s blog explaining the origins of the image Warren originally posted. However, many of Warren’s Facebook followers reacted to the image, which was similar enough to conjure up strong emotions and concerns regarding the Red Guard. And Warren’s reaction, essentially telling those concerned to “get over it”, is what drew the stronger reaction. Had Warren himself known the image was connected to the ballet, he could’ve diffused the situation with an explanation and an apology for unintentionally raising up painful memories. Again, it isn’t the image itself that bothers me so, though the use of cultural images one is not familiar with can be risky. It is Warren’s lack of humility and his non-apology.

      As for you question to me: Do communist Asians all look the same to you?

      Well, yes and no. If I were to go solely on the basis of what I learned in school, the answer for many of us would be “yes” because there was so little time spent on how international politics directly related to US politics. And no, all communist Asians do not look alike. Really? Do you really think all communist Asians look like Kim Jung-un?

      Like

      | Reply Posted 1 year, 1 month ago
  5. * Mingliang says:

    If it was a Red Army member, I actually wouldn’t be as offended.

    However, that’s clearly a member of the Red Guard. They were the paramilitary that terrorised China during the decade of the Cultural Revolution.

    That was only a few decades ago, and many of us have parents and grandparents who were imprisoned, tortured, subjected to “struggle sessions” by Red Guards. They destroyed many lives with their fanatical regime of terror and abuse.

    Making fun of the idealistic fanaticism that drove the Red Guards isn’t funny, particularly when there are many people still dealing with the psychological trauma of the sheer terror that engulfed the country during that period.

    Like

    | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
  6. * Robert says:

    I do not agree with Pastor Rick posting this picture and then defending himself like he did. But as a fellow follower of Christ I also do not agree with publicly confronting him on forms is the correct model that was laid out to us by Christ. Matthew 18:15-17. We have to stay unified as a body especially to the public world. Paul was grieved how fellow brothers and sisters would bring their differences to public places like court. 1 Corinthians 6:6-7 Let us not fall into that as well. Peace and blessings

    Like

    | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
    • * Kathy Khang says:

      I appreciate what you are saying, Robert. Thank you for taking the time to comment here. There were many people, myself included, who confronted him in the public forum he first committed the offense. I also sent an email to him. One thing that has been particularly troubling to me is that I have yet to see Matthew 18 used to correct those who have publicly told me and others to “stop being so sensitive” and to essentially get over ourselves. Grace and peace to you and yours.

      Like

      | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
  7. * Mick says:

    Kathy Khang You admit you moderate this . . A comment from a person who claims Warren is being disturbing and not unusual for white males because they get away allot was allowed here. . A person on warrens blog gave sites like yours to share their point , people were mocking evangelicals , whites , our cultural ignorance , etc . Even so far as claiming Gods plan for marriage was bigoted . Now your accusing me of being racist . So you agree with the comment on this blog that this is a white male characteristic ? They use Hitler and Mao as evil examples for his flock to aspire to . This is so blatant . Were whites born with this characteristic , does it just come along with the skin pigment ? Your right I used the word racist . The comments you moderated were racist and allowed on your site . Bless your heart with the Love of God .
    Recent comments by Rick Warren
    47 minutes ago
    “Never retaliate when people say unkind things about you. Instead, pay them back with a blessing. That is what God wants you to do.” 1 Peter 3:9
    Finally back home. Staff handed me a hard copy of an email from someone offended by a picture I posted. If you were hurt, upset, offended, or distressed by my insensitivity I am truly sorry. May God richly bless you.

    Like

    | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
    • * Kathy Khang says:

      Mick Sheldon, I try to keep as open a forum as I can. I allowed your comment, did I not? Blessings to you, brother.

      Like

      | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
    • * Kathy Khang says:

      Our country has a difficult, painful history of racism. That has not disappeared. Nor has the Church been innocent. I feel that your comments are trying to put words into my mouth and the mouth of another commenter. You may disagree with that, Mick. There is such a thing as White male privilege, and though it is not genetic the cultural and societal norms support it whether or not the person acknowledges it. I disagree with you. I do not believe that comment was racist.

      And comments on someone else’s blog are for that blogger to moderate. We evangelicals often make ourselves easy targets, and cross-cultural awareness and skills are not necessarily on American evangelicalism’s top skill set. Those of us who do talk about it are also often told it is not critical to the Gospel.

      If you want to continue commenting, feel free. You are most welcome here. I and other commenters may not agree with you, but if you are respectful I have found folks here return the favor, regardless of their religion, race, ethnicity, gender, etc.

      Grace and peace.

      Like

      | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
  8. * Frank says:

    We have all become way too sensitive. Hopefully we will mature out of it.

    Like

    | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
    • * Kathy Khang says:

      I will assume the best and include your own maturity. Yes, I hope we will all mature out of the things that keep us from growing. If you are trying to communicate that I am being too sensitive, I would respectfully disagree.

      Like

      | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
  9. * Mick says:

    . (and also not unusual for a white American Christian man — they get away with a heck of a lot).

    Noticed one comment that speaks to displaying racism here is ignored on a blog that is critical of racism ? . To me this is what makes these issues multi leveled . Obviously some of the up roar is also based on Theological differences , while some may be heart felt and people actually insulted . But then those same insulted , are quiet when Warren is called a bigot in the comment section in regards to Gay Marriage . Also attacked on an issue with a biased understanding of the whole story . Are we only offended when it is our issue or our side getting hurt .

    Like

    | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
  10. * nancyhw says:

    Another perspective:

    My parents grew up during the Cultural Revolution and for many of their generation from Mainland China, the experience brings many mixed emotions. For them, the Red Army is not so much about persecution, brutality, etc, but misinformed and misplaced zeal that ultimately disappointed so many. For their generation, Communism was their religion and Mao was their god. They memorized “verses” from the Little Red Book. They sang songs of praises to Mao. They wept for the lostness of the nations who were in the clutches of capitalism. When the Cultural Revolution degenerated into chaos and senseless destruction, many lost faith. Period. In fact, it is one of the greatest hurdles for that generation of Chinese to accept Christ– they see many parallels in Evangelical Christianity and then write it off as another instance of misinformed, misplaced zeal. So for them, an image of Saddleback staff being compared to the Red Army is essentially Rick Warren identifying his own staff with blind, mindless belief…which I think is a whole level of irony that Rick Warren did not intend…

    Like

    | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
    • * Kathy Khang says:

      Thank you for a perspective I had not heard from. And, yes, that would be an entirely differently level of irony, but irony nonetheless.

      Like

      | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
    • * David says:

      “greatest hurdles for that generation of Chinese to accept Christ– they see many parallels in Evangelical Christianity and then write it off as another instance of misinformed, misplaced zeal.” That is not the only reason why Chinese cannot accept Christ. Don’t forget the Western nations dividing China apart during the 1800s. Western nations came under the Christian banner. Also Taiping Rebellion was led by a Chinese Christian that killed millions of Chinese. Its very sad indeed. I really don’t know how the Chinese people can overcome this hurdle when Christianity was involved in the humiliation of China.

      Like

      | Reply Posted 1 year ago
      • * David says:

        We also see similar things happening with Atheists. I ask them about Christianity and they always refer to Christians as hypocrites.

        Like

        Posted 1 year ago
  11. * James P says:

    Normally when I hear white people say it’s a joke, I just assume another redneck making a redneck comment. Just goes to prove, that everyMAN is filthy sinner, including Rick Warren. Just because he’s a pastor of a huge church in some middle America, does not mean he’s pure of heart. Proverbs 20:9 and other passages state that he’s filthy like rest of us. Just chalk one up for a filthy sinner acting filthy. God forgives, because of Jesus, not because he’s a good dude.

    Like

    | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
    • * Kathy Khang says:

      Well, I tread carefully when I hear anyone of any shade use the term “redneck”. I know for some it’s not that big of a deal. For me, it actually brings up some fear. So, let’s just say mankind is one hot mess. Thanks be to God He gave us Jesus. Peace and grace to you!

      Like

      | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
  12. * Not a Christian says:

    What irks me regarding scenarios such as these is usually the message themselves, but some of the typical response generated by the posters’ supporters. “A real Christian wouldn’t be upset about this” or “Be a Christian first”. So if I don’t follow your faith, I can’t be upset about racially insensitive comments you’ve made? So much for the fabled Christian tolerance…what’s next? Inquisition?

    Like

    | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
  13. * idarklight says:

    While Rick Warren’s comment is offensive, I think this post also lacks sensitivity. Comparing an entire generation of Chinese youths to Nazi’s is way too over-generalized, not to mention inaccurate. I think it’s important to recognize the fact that there’s still a red scare in the U.S. (I’m Chinese American, and people ask me if I’m “commie” all the time ), and to be aware to not fuel it.

    Like

    | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
    • * Not a Christian says:

      I’m really curious, where did you see the comparison between “an entire generation of Chinese youths to Nazi’s”? I believe you are referring to this: “The image of the Red Army soldier is offensive. It isn’t funny…focused and determined (and perhaps, dare I say, more like your staff?)”. If so, please reread the sentence carefully. The sentence clearly conveys that the Red Guard image is as offensive as the image of Hitler’s Youth, not that the generation is akin of Nazi’s.
      Also, I wonder where in America you live in to be constantly asked if you were a “commie” all the time. I’ve spent 4 years in an Army infantry unit with some of the most hardcore rednecks and I could count the number of times that question came up on one hand, and I was born and raised in PRC.

      Like

      | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
  14. I’m a well-educated woman. I earned master’s degree and completed post-graduate work. When I first saw this image on your blog, I didn’t even realize the doll was Asian. I wouldn’t have any i idea that that was offensive. Regardless, I’m very sorry this happened, and hope we all (including me) can learn from it.

    Like

    | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
  15. * Irene Cho says:

    Unfortunately, it seems that equating his analogy to that of equal to a Nazi imagery won’t affect him considering he thinks we should follow Christ as the Nazis followed Hilter – http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/158295

    Like

    | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
    • * Finch says:

      This is so disturbing. Where is Christ in any of that? Can you imagine Jesus speaking to that crowd, proclaiming the victory that could be ours in him, if only we could adopt the posture of Hitler Youth? That’s just completely messed up.

      Like

      | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
  16. * Clayton says:

    I did not recognise either image. I assumed, given recent context at Saddleback, that Rick could have been making subtle reference to the pasted on plastic smiles people who work in Christian organisations often feel pressure to wear. It did not even occur to me that the figure was ‘Asian’ until I got part way through your post.

    SO, what about this instead:

    “Dear Pastor Rick. Not sure if you realised this, but the image that you used is actually Red Army Propaganda. This could be offensive to some Asian Americans who are familiar with the history (insert footnote to wikipedia article). Might be worth choosing something else? God bless. Kathy”

    Like

    | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
    • * Kathy Khang says:

      Thanks for you suggestion, Clayton. However, the issue really is that after several folks cued him in on the questionable choice of image, his response was “get over it, it’s a joke.” When you are confronted with a mistake, it’s a good idea to admit the mistake instead of telling people who bring said mistake to your attention to get over it.

      Like

      | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
    • * Mommy of One says:

      A lot of people did write similar words as what you’ve wrote on his page, Clayton, before it was taken down.

      Like

      | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
  17. * DJ Chuang says:

    That post has now been removed immediately and personally by Pastor Rick as soon when he learned how the photo was offensive.

    Like

    | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
    • * Voltekk says:

      Of course, this isn’t for the guy or responding to what he did. It’s responding to how everyone responded to his actions.

      Like

      | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
    • * Mommy of One says:

      DJ Chuang,

      The post was up for at least 20 hours, in my dictionary, that’s not “immediately.” And I have to disagree with what you said, “as soon when he learned how the photo was offensive,” his reaction was to call it a joke and told us not to take it seriously. His first action was NOT to remove the post, rather, to defend himself.

      Like

      | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
    • * Tim Fromla says:

      Why did he put it up in the first place? I am an atheist who attend a Unitarian Universalist Church. They are predominately white and KNOW that what he wrote is racist. He realized that AFTER-THE-FACT that the comments and his defense:

      Don’t you know this is a joke? This is funny. Get over yourself. Get a sense of humor. Christians can be funny.

      I didn’t mean to offend you. BUT…Get over yourself. Get a sense of humor. Christians can be funny.

      Why are you attacking “fill in the blank with well-intentioned White person’s name here”? Don’t you know how many people said person’s ministry and life’s work has touched and brought to faith? Get over yourself. Get a sense of humor. Christians can be funny.

      If you are a Christian, show “fill in the blank with well-intentioned White person’s name here” some grace. Get over yourself. Get a sense of humor. Christians can be funny.

      Don’t be so politically-correct. Be a Christian first. Don’t make this about race. Get over yourself. Get a sense of humor. Christians can be funny.

      Is racist? AFTER-THE-FACT? His Bible says: Matthew 12:34: how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

      His heart spoketh and it’s racist. No two-way about it. I am NOT forgiving of him as I do not believe in a Deity that COMMANDS me to forgive, but if his apologies is based upon protest and not truly from his heart

      Don’t you know this is a joke? This is funny. Get over yourself. Get a sense of humor. Christians can be funny.

      I didn’t mean to offend you. BUT…Get over yourself. Get a sense of humor. Christians can be funny.

      Why are you attacking “fill in the blank with well-intentioned White person’s name here”? Don’t you know how many people said person’s ministry and life’s work has touched and brought to faith? Get over yourself. Get a sense of humor. Christians can be funny.

      If you are a Christian, show “fill in the blank with well-intentioned White person’s name here” some grace. Get over yourself. Get a sense of humor. Christians can be funny.

      Don’t be so politically-correct. Be a Christian first. Don’t make this about race. Get over yourself. Get a sense of humor. Christians can be funny.

      But humorous, then either see his career ended or accept the fact that evangelical right winged Christians are truly racist.

      Like

      | Reply Posted 1 year, 1 month ago
  18. * Voltekk says:

    Obviously it’s acceptable if we make the argument that 11 mil people died to the Nazi’s and 30-40 mil people died in the Chinese Cultural Revolution so yes, the Hitler poster is definitely more acceptable /endsarcasm. Words that cause hurt to members of the body and nonmembers should never be so casually brought up like a joke. It causes real pain to people and defending ignorance is beyond me. I don’t care if someone messed up; we’re people, even if we are Christians, we are not above being human and sinning. Lastly, we don’t need all these self righteous people going on to the defense of others… honestly. This sickens me when people are so quick to brush off other people’s legitimate concerns. Imagine what the world, the universal church, the non believers think of us when they see something like this. I definitely would hate to be a Christian if my example of loving others was to disregard their concerns when I find something to be funny.

    Like

    | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
  19. * Getoveryourself says:

    Just a reference to the firgure’s posture, countenance, and up-turned face. Nothing more. I am sure that whoever posted that had NO idea there was any connection to the red army.

    Like

    | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
    • * Snoopy says:

      Fine, initial mistake, ok, but his response was way worse. If Hee just owned up and apologized, it would have been better. His response was the bigger mistake.

      Like

      | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
      • * Kathy Khang says:

        Agreed. Which is why I have left this post up with screen shots.

        Like

        Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
      • * Mommy of One says:

        I agree Snoopy. I was perplexed at the posting of the Red Guard picture, but I’m mad at his comment on it being a joke, even more mad when he equates those who get his “humor” as “disciples,” those who don’t as “self-righteous.”

        To tell you the truth, I hope it’s somebody who wrote the comment for him. Especially after reading “If you take this seriously, you really shouldn’t be following me!”

        Like

        Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
    • * Finch says:

      I don’t believe that it was posted out of ignorance. Warren (I refuse to call him “pastor”) has made references to Hitler Youth and the Red Army before. This is his go-to meme, people, and while he seems to recognize that Hitler and Mao and Lenin were evil men, he still uses their power as some sort of model for what he wants his flock to aspire to. I find that deeply disturbing (and also not unusual for a white American Christian man — they get away with a heck of a lot).

      Like

      | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
      • * Mick says:

        (and also not unusual for a white American Christian man — they get away with a heck of a lot).

        I suppose you feel no need to apologize for this ?

        Like

        Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
      • * Kathy Khang says:

        Mick Sheldon, I see you have commented here, on the Sojourners blog and at least one other place, I believe. I moderate my blog. How did that observation and personal opinion of someone else exemplify their belief that White American Christian men are superior? I don’t see you joining me in my frustration over this matter concerning Warren. As a non-White American Christian woman how should I take that? Are you being racist? And I would like to point out that you were the first to use the word “racist” over on your comments on Sojourners.

        Like

        Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
      • * Finch says:

        Apologize for it? No, I don’t feel the need, but thanks for checking. I am, however, happy to provide you with a list of powerful Caucasian men who identify as followers of Christ yet use their position to intimidate, shame, disempower, and manipulate others. Would you like to see it? Perhaps you would like to defend it?

        To be clear: I’m not saying all (white)(Christian) men are evil. I’m saying that there is a lot of leeway given to this particular kind of religious leader, and when they choose to flaunt their lack of accountability I have no desire to give them the benefit of the doubt. In this case, Warren has shown he deserves none, because he is well aware of the Red Army and the evil they wrought. If he were a man of any kind or character he would have responded with grace. He chose otherwise.

        Like

        Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
      • * Kathy Khang says:

        A-freaking-men!

        Like

        Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
  20. * daniel so says:

    Kathy — Thank you for voicing these concerns, and for not backing down in the face of these kinds of events.

    It is so utterly (and frustratingly) draining to see the same old cycle replay itself again & again:

    1. Racially offensive comment/event made
    2. People who are offended respond
    3. Overwhelming backlash, typically filled with “get over yourself” and “a real Christian wouldn’t be offended” types of statements.

    This particular event is even worse because of the horrific nature of what the Red Army has done (thanks for the link to Dr. Tsang’s blog, by the way). It’s not exaggerating to compare their atrocities to the Nazis, about whom no church leader would dare to make public jokes.

    I suppose I can understand how it would happen that Rick wouldn’t know about the Red Army (I think it’s hard for anyone to know world history for cultures different from themselves). However, his direct response is truly heartbreaking — he equates those who would laugh at this offense with “disciples” and those who are offended as “self-righteous.” Ouch.

    I often say that I want to engage in fights that are worth fighting over. And, although I am bone-weary over this kind of nonsense, this is a fight worth fighting. Thanks for not giving up.

    Like

    | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
  21. * idelette says:

    Thank you for speaking out and speaking up, Kathy. I stand with you that this is not funny.

    Like

    | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago
    • * Kathy Khang says:

      Thanks for reading. Please feel free to share with your circles. It’s really not funny and it’s not OK.

      Like

      | Reply Posted 1 year, 2 months ago


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